Easiest vaccination ever! Single measles vaccine - no to MMR

[inky]

After deciding not to allow LO to be vaccinated with the MMR vaccine, I took LO to a private medical practice for his single measles vacation today. The clinic is owned by an ex NHS consultant paediatrician, is full of toys and very very relaxed. They made us both feel very at ease, showed me the vials before they were used and then used what they told me were special paediatric needles so small that the idea is the child feels only pressure, not pain.

I can only go on previous experience - that being one very distressed baby, and a health visitor herding us in like cattle to stick very thick needles into LOs thigh, leaving red angry marks and an obviously sore leg. Not this time, LO was playing with some toys in the consulting room when everything was being explained to me, when the time came I simply picked him up, pulled down his trousers, he wasn't held down or forced down as he has been previously, he had the jab (without it being corkscrewed in like usual), stayed nice and calm then went back to play with his toys. No fear, no stress, no tears!!

There's no way we're going back to the health visitor for ANY of LOs jabs now. There's no need for the upset it causes each time. People have told me I'm mad to pay for single vaccines when i can get it combined on the NHS, but today i spent the best money I've ever spent. LOs comfort is worth more than money, and im so pleased I made the decision I did

 

[AugustMum]

So glad it went well!

Luckily we have lovely nurses at my doctors and they're so good. If they were like the HVs you've said youve met I think Id do the same as you. I thought when I asked for 2 of the 3 jabs to be done and the mmr done on a seperate date they might kick up a fuss but she completly understood and agreed with my decision. Love it when health professionals, either nhs or private, are understanding

 

[inky]

It really does make a difference doesn't it?! I think I was branded a trouble maker by our HV when I asked her questions she really couldn't be arsed with answering the first time we went. I know they're busy but on 'vaccination day' at our surgery, the babies are lined up outside and rushed through. No care, no time given, they all scream without fail and the who,e experience is horrible for all involved. Regardless of my stance on the MMR, it was so nice and refreshing to have someone genuinely seem to care for the well being of your child. Such a pity I had to pay to get it when all LOs deserve that level of care as standard

 

[setdse]

sorry must have missed thread but why didnt you wna the mmr?? sounds like a lovely place tho!

 

[Dragonfly Fi]

MMR has a number of side effects, it is rare but the MMR can cause auto-immunity disorders in a few people. It is also un-known (for this reason) what its connection is with ME and MS which come on later in life

there is also the issues with austism which are hard to talk about because of all the media hype surrounding the issue and people have very strong views for and against

but what is absolutely certain, and written on the 'side effects' section of the pamphlet you get with the combined MMR, is that it can cause auto-immune disorders in people. so if you or your family are susceptible to them, its best to avoid


There is also the small issue of Rubella being a pointless inject for a boy to have, or for a girl to have pre-puberty (when rubella becomes a problem) and Mumps being pointless for girls and only necessary for boys at puberty, and the fact that the introduction of these two injections, while reducing the cases of Rubella and Mumps, has only reduced the cases of harmless pre-pubescent rubella and mumps, the cases of post pubescent (and incredibly damaging) rubella and mumps has actually increased. Because no one is getting a natural immunity to them anymore and vaccination immunity is only proven to last 7/10 years

there are lots of speculation about other things, bowel conditions, autism, aspergers, athsma, excema, allergies etc which are speculation but there is a heavy amount of information both for and against

but the two issues i have cited above are actual facts rather than any speculative assumptions.

 

[setdse]

MMR has a number of side effects, it is rare but the MMR can cause auto-immunity disorders in a few people. It is also un-known (for this reason) what its connection is with ME and MS which come on later in life

there is also the issues with austism which are hard to talk about because of all the media hype surrounding the issue and people have very strong views for and against

but what is absolutely certain, and written on the 'side effects' section of the pamphlet you get with the combined MMR, is that it can cause auto-immune disorders in people. so if you or your family are susceptible to them, its best to avoid


There is also the small issue of Rubella being a pointless inject for a boy to have, or for a girl to have pre-puberty (when rubella becomes a problem) and Mumps being pointless for girls and only necessary for boys at puberty, and the fact that the introduction of these two injections, while reducing the cases of Rubella and Mumps, has only reduced the cases of harmless pre-pubescent rubella and mumps, the cases of post pubescent (and incredibly damaging) rubella and mumps has actually increased. Because no one is getting a natural immunity to them anymore and vaccination immunity is only proven to last 7/10 years

there are lots of speculation about other things, bowel conditions, autism, aspergers, athsma, excema, allergies etc which are speculation but there is a heavy amount of information both for and against

but the two issues i have cited above are actual facts rather than any speculative assumptions.

Wow im def goign to look into this! how much notice do you have to give if u dont want them to have the mmr??

 

[titch]

thanks for that info. where did you go to get private vacines? LO has had the MMR but I like the sound of the whole experience being more relaxed for LOs 2 year vaccines.

 

[titch]

MMR has a number of side effects, it is rare but the MMR can cause auto-immunity disorders in a few people. It is also un-known (for this reason) what its connection is with ME and MS which come on later in life

there is also the issues with austism which are hard to talk about because of all the media hype surrounding the issue and people have very strong views for and against

but what is absolutely certain, and written on the 'side effects' section of the pamphlet you get with the combined MMR, is that it can cause auto-immune disorders in people. so if you or your family are susceptible to them, its best to avoid


There is also the small issue of Rubella being a pointless inject for a boy to have, or for a girl to have pre-puberty (when rubella becomes a problem) and Mumps being pointless for girls and only necessary for boys at puberty, and the fact that the introduction of these two injections, while reducing the cases of Rubella and Mumps, has only reduced the cases of harmless pre-pubescent rubella and mumps, the cases of post pubescent (and incredibly damaging) rubella and mumps has actually increased. Because no one is getting a natural immunity to them anymore and vaccination immunity is only proven to last 7/10 years

there are lots of speculation about other things, bowel conditions, autism, aspergers, athsma, excema, allergies etc which are speculation but there is a heavy amount of information both for and against

but the two issues i have cited above are actual facts rather than any speculative assumptions.

Wow im def goign to look into this! how much notice do you have to give if u dont want them to have the mmr??

yoiu can withdraw your consent right up until the second he has the injection. You will be asked to sign a form on the day. so dont sign it if youre not happy.

 

[inky]

We went here:

http://www.drjohnoakley.co.uk/

I looked into some of the other places that offer the jabs, but liked the fact that this was more personal, rather than a vaccination clinic.

We chose not to have the mmr not only for the reasons given by bigbump, but also because LO has a history of reaction to vaccines. I also read that mmr is more likely to cause a febrile convulsion than a single vaccine.

After a lot of research I could only conclude that the mmr was designed to save the nhs money, and that their 'reasonable risk' wasnt worth it

 

[Dragonfly Fi]

whats really frustrating, is that it would cost a mere £1 extra per vaccine to do them seperately, a price most parents would be willing to pay. Unfortunately there is a 'we said this is fine how DARE you disagree with us' sort of bloody-mindedness that comes along with such things.

For example them refusing to update the 5in1 given at 2months - 4months and so on. What 2 month old child, in the UK, needs protecting against diptheria? When was the last time you ever HEARD about a case of diptheria? Or polio... not necessarily saying that these things shouldnt be vaccinated against at all, but why so young? Surely the only reason we should be putting nasties into tiny babies is because they are at risk? Not just coz its easier for the NHS!!!

anyway, as you can probably tell, i am quite passionate about this subject

Inky i respect you so much for looking at your child and making a decision based upon that child. There is too little of it going on

Jasper has not received his 'invitation' to have the MMR but we will be ignoring it when he does x

 

[inky]

I've also found that the health visitors seem to dumb down when you start asking questions - it's like they really can't be bothered and hope you will just do as they say if they pretend to have any info rather than have you question things any more. Heaven forbid they have to take a few minutes out what I understand is a very busy day, but still, to them LO is just another baby to process, but to me he's the most precious thing n the world!

I didn't know it only cost an extra pound per vaccine. The measles jab alone cost me £110. I feel very lucky to be able to make the decision I wanted rather than not be able to because of financial constraints, it really doesn't seem fair that for some there isn't another option. It should be free choice for all!

Anyone in two mind should visit http://www.jabs.org.uk they were a great factor in helping get this sorted x

 

[Dragonfly Fi]

It would cost the NHS an extra pound per vaccine, for a private company to buy them in and pay for the license to administer them is an awful lot more!

 

[Pudds86]

I have been thinking about this recently, Campbell will be getting his letter in a couple of months and I am really not clued up on the MMR vaccine but I have heard there are arguments for and against this. Where should I start off looking into this?

 

[Dragonfly Fi]

There is a book called 'the truth about vaccines' which covers a section on the MMR

there is also a good forum called 'Jabs' with some information on it.

 

[LuW]

I've pulled apart the research into MMR and the autism link at least 5 times. Each time I've found more and more evidence against Wakefields study.


I can vouch for some of his other statements regarding auto-immune disorders and certain bowl disorders. But it's a slim vouch.

The problem people have is, we're so 'up for' blaming others for every little thing. I specialised in austism with community care and so many of the mums I've worked with blame the vaccine BUT Austic traits are first noticable at the age or the vaccine and slightly afterwards, I worked closely with a family who had two sons with autism, one born in '94 and one born in '00. The older child had the MMR vaccine and they were told (as to research at the time) the vaccine had caused the austism. The younger child DID NOT, yet has Asperges. The were then told the youngests asperges was caused by the MMR vaccine. But he'd never had it. His mother had refused it.


Theres more links to Autism and Asperges being a genetic link and usually if you watch a family with one person who is 'affected' enough to be diagnosed, the rest of the family will show autistic traits. Not enough for most to notice, but those who generally dislike social functions, keep a small network of friends but aren't particulary close to any one friend, unusual confidence with strangers (usually when talking over one subject, 'nervous' jibberish as it can seem).


I made it my business to know this study inside out and have followed it religiously. New clients come onto my lists wanting to know why and if it was something they did. Short answer is no. Theres no blame, you could blame yourself for letting your child have the vaccine, but you could for not! If the study have a strong enough backbone, don't you think the combined vaccine would have been pulled YEARS ago? Wakefield was pushing the idea onto others way back in the early '90's and if the risks outweighed the benefits, it would have been pulled by either the NHS or the government. Let's face it, the government have to pay more towards a SEN child's education then that of a mainstream, they don't like having to take money from pointless budgets and giving it to causes that need it.


End of the day it is the parents choice over the vaccine, but either way don't feel guilty about it or anything else you choose your child to have or do! The only opinions that truely matter are that of your own, seriously though, any doubt and speak to your GP, HV or a specialist in the subject (or if you can get your hands on an unbiased reading source). It's a shame alot of leaflets are designed by nature to express the authors beliefs and persuade you to their way of thinking, even the ones you pick up in the doctors clinics are the same, it's hard to truely write from an unbiased point of view.


Sorry for the long post!! xxxxxx

 

[Dragonfly Fi]

Why does everyone assume Andrew Wakefield is the only doctor to research the MMR? Plenty of other doctors do, yet the only person ever mentioned is Andrew Wakefield. And he ONLY researched the link between austism and the MMR - the auto-immunity disorders are not speculation, they are written under the contra-indications for those vaccines... on the bottle if you like.

 

[LuW]

Wakefield pushed the idea for years, Other doctors researched but couldn't find a strong enough link.

Wakefield DID prove (as I said and can VOUCH for) the link between auto-immune disorders and conditions such as crohn's.

AS I said. If there was a strong enough link to autism, it would have been pulled. The Government aren't into funding things that will cost them more money afterwards.

 

[Dragonfly Fi]

but your the only person going on about the link to autism???

 

[inky]

AS I said. If there was a strong enough link to autism, it would have been pulled. The Government aren't into funding things that will cost them more money afterwards.

The Government may not have thought there was a strong enough link to autism, but they did decide that there was a reasonable risk in having the vaccine of experiencing a whole myriad of other disorders. This is why I decided against the MMR. No risk to my baby's health is 'reasonable'.

The whole MMR debate is clouded by arguments over whether or not Wakefields studies were correct, but if people delved a little deeper they would see that autism is just one of many problems associated with MMR.

 

[Dragonfly Fi]

plus the medical community have a rich and varied history of ignoring facts because it might prove them wrong. They dont like being proved wrong at all and so they generally put their finger in their ears and say LALALALA rather than admit they have done something wrong

and could you imagine it? 'Yes we put a vaccine in all the children in Britain that causes autism' the outrage would be ridiculous.