Aaaarrrggghhh

Discussion in 'Baby & Toddler' started by beanie, Mar 9, 2006.

  1. beanie

    beanie Well-Known Member

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    Seren got ready for bed at 7 as usual, didn't sleep til 10pm. Cried constantly despite being rocked, fed, dummy etc. Eventually fell asleep. Am completely frazzled, she has cat napped all day for no longer then 10 mins, and was so over tired. How can I help her sleep?? Its really getting me down she used to be so good, falling asleep on her own. :(
     
  2. tracyM

    tracyM Well-Known Member

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    it probably sounds cruel but if any of ours have gone beyond tired, we've physically forced them to sleep. We hold Alex really tightly, pinning his arms, legs and head so he can't move, put a tea towel over his head so he can't see, take him into a quiet room, so there's nothing to hear and 'shush' loudly right next to his ear. Once there's no stimulation for him to stay awake for, he goes off really quickly. It's our last resort method when nothing else works and he's waaaayy overtired and doing everything possible to fight it

    Tracy xx
     
  3. tommy

    tommy Well-Known Member

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    i am not surprised they went to sleep they were probably terrified poor kids
     
  4. stephlw25

    stephlw25 Well-Known Member

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  5. BubbleOne

    BubbleOne Well-Known Member

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  6. Urchin

    Urchin Well-Known Member

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    is a tea towel over the head really necessary?
    What about a dark room?
     
  7. beanie

    beanie Well-Known Member

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    Think that was a bit unfair Tommy. Seren has a very strong moro reflex and will be going to sleep but waking every couple of mins because her arms were jerking up and waking her up. I have found that by gently pressing on her chest she doesn't startle, not hard just a small pressure so she feels reassured. We used to swaddle her but she no longer likes that so found this the best way for her now. In the baby whisperer she does say that you should take overtired babies into a dark room so they get no stimulation and I will do that, and then do the pat shush. At no time is Seren scared, if she was there is no way I would do it. She quickly fell asleep tonight by me placing my hand on her chest, and shushing in her ear. I have found that when Seren is tired, any stimulation, ie rocking, picking up, or even talking to her means that she will scream...am hoping that this way she will realise its ok to go to sleep as it is so hard work being with an over tired child.
     
  8. tommy

    tommy Well-Known Member

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    so you think it is fair placing something over a childs head i said nothing about holding the child i hold hannah and swaddle her
     
  9. lauramumof2

    lauramumof2 Well-Known Member

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    can, worms, open
    But I have to say the tea towel is a step too far for me. Darkened room yes but to physically pin someone even a baby is too much. I would take them into the room and put them down and sit down near them.
    I would hate to think I had frightened Jess and think this might come back to bite you later despite the fact the go to sleep now.

    Laura
     
  10. beanie

    beanie Well-Known Member

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    I couldn't tell from your post which part you were referring to sorry and it sounded like you were sayigthat holding the babies arms and legs down was terrifying the children.
     
  11. tracyM

    tracyM Well-Known Member

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    it's not as bad as it sounds, honest :( Holding the arms and legs is like swaddling them in a blanket, the towel isn't right over the head, just draped over us so they don't get any stimulation from looking round. The shushing stimulates the white noise they hear in the womb - it needs to be pretty loud at first so they can hear it over their screaming. If they'd ever shown any signs of being scared, I wouldn't have done it, but it does actually comfort them, and after a minute or so they've calmed and you can go to a more regular cuddle
     
  12. Zor-El

    Zor-El Well-Known Member

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    ok i totally disagree with the tea towel :?

    ethan will only sleep when he is swaddled which i only started doing when my hv advised me to

    if ur in a dark room what is the point of the towel aswell?
     
  13. beanie

    beanie Well-Known Member

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    Tracey I have sat under a sheet with Seren once as the room was quite light, though it was only for a couple of mins as I got worried we were getting too hot. Is that how you mean with the tea towel???
     
  14. lauramumof2

    lauramumof2 Well-Known Member

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    I dont want you to think I thought you would deliberatly frighten your child, I just cant picture it being pleasant for anyone.
     
  15. tracyM

    tracyM Well-Known Member

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    Thats the sort of thing I mean beanie - maybe I should get better at explaining. It doesn't make it much darker, but it blocks the rest of the world out.
     
  16. beanie

    beanie Well-Known Member

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    I'm the same Tracey, rubbish at explaining myself. reading back my post about the sheet I actually sound quite mad, but she had been crying all afternoon and I thought that if we were under the sheet it might just calm her down :oops:
     
  17. Manda

    Manda Well-Known Member

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    if what i think tracey is saying is the same as what i'm thinking she means draping a blanket/teatowel over her shoulder and over baby like when you're breast feeding discreetly :)
     
  18. amy

    amy Well-Known Member

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    :think: my little girl is a nightmare when bed time arrives, if shes not ready then shes not ready, i either sing to her or get her back up, 10 more minutes of playing usually does the trick. i would never ever force her down to sleep!!! that gets you no where apart from getting stressed yourself and your baby senses your emotions so if your stressed your baby will be. also a nice lavender bath does the trick, there are loads of other options than force. :shakehead:
     
  19. beanie

    beanie Well-Known Member

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    Amy I don't think you can force a baby to sleep. What me and Tracy are describing is when the baby gets over tired. Seren will get really upset if she is over tired and will scream. The best way to help them sleep when they are at this state is to not stimulate them through rocking, talking, putting on a mobile etc, any stimulation upsets them more as their little bodies just want to sleep but they can't switch off. By doing this they calm down and will eventually sleep. The only other alternative when they are overtired is to let them cry till they exhaust themselves even more which I think is worse (this is not controlled crying, this is when they want to sleep but can't if you see what I mean). If she wakes at night and won't go back to sleep because she is hungry then I use a different method to help her go back to sleep usually feeding her. When getting Seren to bed, if she is not tired then I will pick her up and rock her or shh and rub her tummy, both usually work. I agree about the lavender, Seren has a lavender bath, lavender body lotion rubbed ion and I sprinkle a few drops of lavender oil on a tissue and put it in the room. Makes me tired too.
     
  20. tracyM

    tracyM Well-Known Member

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    There's no way it would work at bedtime - a baby who's not tired won't go to sleep full stop. We have no problems usually at bed time - Alex settles after bottle and bath all by himself, but if he gets over stimulated during his bedtime routine he could push and push all night.

    I found when they're overtired, even when they go to sleep with crying because they're so exhausted, they'll wake up again pretty quickly - even a slight twitch will wake them - and you're back to square one. The five minute sleep they've had seems to give them enough energy to keep going for another hour.

    I did the towel thing regularly with Daniel (either that or a drive to Birmingham and back at 2am which isn't safe) because he was in nursery and they couldn't get him to have a daytime nap. Callum slept when and where he felt like it so we never did it with him. We did it a couple of times with Charlotte, and so far we've done it once with Alex - he was still at it at 1am, wouldn't take a bottle, within 5 minutes of holding him, he was zonked out, and after another ten minutes of cuddling he went down in his carry cot until his normal feed time.

    Alex now sleeps with his eyes open during the day so he can wake up if he's missing anything - looks very odd and we crapped ourselves the first time he did it - but it seems to stop him getting over tired.

    Every baby is different - some will never get over tired, others will do it every day. Some will happily watch the world go by all day long, others will want to be responsible for making the world go by, most will be in between. I wasn't suggesting that every parent should do it at every bedtime, I explained (pretty badly!!) what we do *as a last resort* when baby is *way overtired*

    The towel / sheet / muslin or whatever you use doesn't work by making it dark - it works by making their world smaller and they feel more secure. Daniel objected if I was under the towel with him - he needed to withdraw completely, Alex calmed down better when my head was next to his under the tea towel - if I need to do it again with him, I'll use something bigger. I've seen toddlers hide inside mummy's coat when they're overwhelmed, people hide under covers / behind cushions when they're scared - the rest of the world is still there, but it doesn't need to be worried about
     

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